Questions re MD-P2NP

[Rabidreject]

Okay, let’s say I have some md-p2np and I want to use half to reduce to MDA and half to put towards MDMA.

Could one possibly just reduce it all to MDA and then take half of that and use reductive amination with formaldehyde to methylate it? It’s something iv done with tryptamine to dimethylate but I wonder if it would work in this instance…

thanks

 

[Rabidreject]

Oh yeh I meant with formaldehyde and NaBH4. Sorry

 

[CCL4 huffer]

i mean i have seen the procedure with amphetamine to methamphetamine just with Hg amalgam so it will quite possibly work. my guess would be that the yield wont be that great tho (especialy if u use Hg amalgam) but u gotta try for urself.

the best method id come up with would be methyl iodide or methyl sulfate u should use precise stoichiometry tho since it is possible to "over methylate" it.

also mayby i should point out the great carcinogenic risk if impropperly purified
good luck!

 

[Rabidreject]

Yes that over methylation was used in the first n,n-DMT synthesis if I’m not mistaken. Formed the quaternary ammonium salt and then demethylated.
Makes sense…
I’ll look into it a bit more before I do anything, it was just a thought.

 

[HIGGS BOSSON]

To obtain MDMA, it is easier to convert mdp2np into md-phenylacetone, and then reduce it in any way. And MDA is easy to obtain by the al/hg method, all methods for unsubstituted phenylnitropropene will also work for methylenedioxy.

http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/en/threads/p2p-synthesis-from-p2np.188/

http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/en/threads/methamphetamine-synthesis-from-p2p-via-al-hg.8568/

http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/en/threads/mdma-synthesis-via-nabh4-from-mdp2p.5188/

 

[Rabidreject]

Okay yeah that all fits with what iv come across in my reading.
I am no chemist, what iv learned iv taught myself so can I ask why when using tryptamine to synthesise n,n-DMT, people use reductive amination in order to add methyl groups to the nitrogen side chain, however, in trying to do the same thing (although only a single methylation) people don’t use this method and tend to use methyl iodide?

Yeah it makes sense to go from md-p2np to the phenylacetone, I’m just curious as to why it wouldn’t work to methylate MDA in this manner.

Cheers

 

[HIGGS BOSSON]

You can methylate MDA to MDMA, here is the method:

http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/en/threads/the-simplest-methamphetamine-synthesis-from-amphetamine.1671/

But in my opinion, it is more difficult

 

[Rabidreject]

Ah ha yeh okay so their method is actually similar but with a more powerful reducing agent to reduce the imine.
That’s interesting. Thanks for the link

I dunno which one, if any, I will do but yeah I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t misunderstanding by thinking I could use formaldehyde to form the n-methyl-imine and then reduce it. More of a theoretical curiosity than practical.

 

[William D.]

You are talking about a good route, I think about it. N-methylformamide is quite expensive, but formamide and formaldehyde are cheaper and affordable. I think to go such a route makes sense.

 

[Rabidreject]

Yeah iv always done it with just formaldehyde solution and borohydride but honestly the yields are less than ideal, keeping it cold is an ass and I generally get bad yields - even now after my lab etiquette has improved drastically.
I was wondering if making STAB from the borohydride would help cut down the competing Picktet-Spengler reaction and mean you could do it closer to room temp. I know people tend to use sodium cyanoborohydride for this but that would involve either buying cyanide or just buying the cyanoborhydride.

Iv been meaning to make some STAB and test this route but have been busy with a CBD isomerisation (among other things)

I just hate the way the DMT produced has a hard time crystalising and most recently when I ran the reaction I got it to crystallise, took it out the freezer, decanted the solvent and then the crystals just melted and it returned to an oil.
In the past, with this oil, it will sometimes solidify but mostly not. Usually I’d get a scattering of crystals around the edge, scrape them up and they would be stable.
With the oil when it did solidify and I put it into sample jars, after a few days it would start discolouring to a red colour and eventually be so red that I’d never want to use it!

 

[Rabidreject]

Ah hahaha! It helps to read the title of the thread and know what it’s about before typing an answer to a TOTALLY separate topic!! Ha

sorry, above I was talking about reductive amination of tryptamine to DMT, not the alkylation of MDA to MDMA *hits forehead!*

 

[Rabidreject]

Oh and also no fume hood exactly but I have an extraction fan I used to use for growing and a tent I sometimes put up. Depends on the reaction. Sometimes I just use the fan, sometimes the fan and the tent so it’s a bit more enclosed and sometimes nada, like for a Henry reaction I wouldn’t bother really.